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Notes
on the Hornady 366 auto shotshell Part I: introduction to the 366 Part
I:
Introduction, mounting set-up, powder/shot
bushings
discussion for Part
II:
General problem
solutions/tool
adjustments for best results. Part
III:
Some reasons and solutions for poor
quality crimp results. Includes Part
IV: On
changing dies to a different gauge, setting up a
new die head or
just Part VI: Some thoughts on the buying of a used 366. Also includes the essential tool and recommended spare parts lists. Index: Disclaimer
This article is mainly written for those who have owned 366's for while and are interested in possibly picking up some tips, or otherwise experienced loaders looking for information on the Hornady 366 auto shotshell reloading press. Use of the information is at your own risk. These notes come from 40 years of working with the Pacific/Hornady 366 reloading tool; others will have had different experiences. If you are not an experienced reloader, please, please, please, buy the several excellent books that are on the market and become intimately familiar with the process and the very necessary safety procedures. Reading the MSDS statements available on the various manufacturer's websites provides valuable information as well as the powder recipe booklet forewords. These booklets are available either by download or by mail at no charge to the requester. Many of those sites offer how-to-reload information as well. Always follow exactly the loading recipes supplied by the propellant manufacturers. Reloading is not a place for short-cuts and sloppy guesswork. And obviously, you cannot safely reload with best quality when you are tired, in a hurry, or otherwise not able give your full and proper attention to the job. Two current shotgun reloading information books come immediately to mind. The Lyman 5 th edition Shotgun Reloading Manual is one. Another is the Reloading for Shotgunners, fourth edition by Kurt D. Fackler and M.L. McPherson. They are available from www.amazon.com, where you buy components or any good sporting goods store, online or not. MEC and RCBS (RCBS:"The Handbook of Shotshell Reloading") also offer shotshell reloading instruction manuals at a reasonable price. Better yet, in addition to the books, find someone who is a well-experienced reloader to help you get through the learning stages explaining what the books may not make clear to you and who can answer the occasional question that comes up from time to time. You will also find that Hornady's tech support is second to none and will be of tremendous help. They're just plain good people! 366 Purpose: The Hornady 366 is a versatile shotshell reloading tool that will allow the easy assembly of single shells for experimental purposes with a scale, as to determine best component combinations for a perfect crimp, or to do high volume production—about 400 12 gauge shells per hour—as needed or desired (The 410's and 28's loading rate will be slower, as you might expect. A range of 200 - 400 shells per hour is perhaps more realistic, depending on case mouth condition.). Part description terms used throughout will be as used by Hornady in their latest manual's parts diagram, on page 23, now available at www.hornady.com. IF USING an older manual, you will find some of the parts are described slightly differently. Why I came to buy a 366: At the time of the 1971 Grand American, I was still shooting Remington 1100 autoloaders for skeet. I was also using a MEC model 400 single stage reloader (no longer made). Nice machine, but as a single stage model, it was never intended for production. With the center handle operating position, it was also bothering my wrist and elbow, probably as a consequence of needing the highest possible production rate. The MEC 400 had an optional #348 resizing die that was designed to squeeze the shell body dimensions closer to SAAMI factory specifications. The die was tight enough that most factory shells would drop no more than about about 70 - 80% of the way into the die. I decided to start trying to choose a new machine by size-testing shells made on the demonstration reloading machines at the Grand since getting reloaded shells to reliably chamber was of equal importance to increased production. After testing all the machines on offer, the Pacific (Hornady) was the clear winner. For a partial history of the 366's evolution, see http://pacificreloaders.awardspace.com. Site also shows early catalogs, setting up the Pacific 366-DL and more. An additional URL resource is: http://en.wikipedia.org. Note that Hornady has recently uploaded many of the earlier Pacific model instruction manuals onto their website. General Machine type recommendations: Everybody
has an opinion
based on their personal experiences. Or that of their
friends. All the
tools
have their virtues and difficulties. And one loaders
virtues/difficulties is another's “So
what”, as you may have
noticed on such forums as trapshooters.com or shotgunworld.com. For
information on
other
brands of loading
tools, please look under reloading on the master
links page. Many new machines
have come on the market in
recent years (RCBS, Dillon and Spolar to name three), and
it may be that one of them will be of greater interest. I will say that
the Hornady has given me 40 years of service with very few
problems; it has never failed me. I can unhesitatingly recommend
it. Next step
up,
with a commensurate
increase in the operational knowledge
and experience required, the MEC Auto-Mate/9000G
is worth considering, but I am not
clear as to the production per hour figures. It likely
will eliminate the resizing effort issue. If
you need more than 20,000 shells a
year and/or the operating handle of a manual press bothers your hand,
arm or elbow, then perhaps a
hydraulic model Ponsness-Warren
with automatic hull feeder is the way to
go: just insert a wad, press the foot
pedal and you get another shell. If
you REALLY
need production, look
for a small model (used?) BSM commercial loader (See www.bsn.it
for a nice video of the latest small model in operation). Push the
start button and get a
1200 boxed shells
per
hour production rate and since it uses only
new primed hulls, the shells will
always chamber (Well, should!).
You'll probably need a week or two in
Italy to learn how
to operate, adjust
and maintain it though.
And, yes, they do make faster/bigger models that crank out in excess of
10,000 shells an hour. But, all tongue in cheek kidding
aside and all
things considered, for the price—about $250ish used,
$550ish new—the Hornady 366 can't be beat.
Figure about 400 12 gauge bunker shells in about an hour of steady,
error free
effort: far more cartridges than you
need for a day (probably even for most weekends) of bunker shooting. Does the 366 load 3" 12 gauge shells? Hornady says no. But they do sell the final crimp dies that can be used in no-longer-made 155 and 260 (260 operating manual) single-stage loaders. Both these models show up very reasonably priced on the used market and if you already have a 366 with appropriate bushings, you'll feel very comfortable using the 260 model. The 260 model also uses the same bench mounting holes: no new setup for loading a few hunting shells. So
how does the 366 work? For those who haven't had a bit of
hands-on
with a 366 and would like an overview, here's a youtube video: New
is always a nice way
to
go. The machine
is clean, pretty, adjusted (for the Remington brand
STS shells)
and ready to go; you are
virtually guaranteed
excellent results from the time it comes out
of the box. Any minor
problems will be quickly resolved by a careful reading of
the manual—a thorough understanding
of the machine's
operation
is very
strongly recommended before you start reloading—or
advice from
the very nice folks
at Hornady's technical service, toll-free at 800.338.3220.
Fabulous people to work with. And you'll
love
the
introductory phone system answering message! Buying a used 366 Buying used is a money saver... but you get what you pay for. However, the machine has been manufactured so long that the design has been thoroughly debugged; anything wrong is easily diagnosed and quickly resolved. You'll find that folks at Hornady are very happy to supply parts and advice A used 12 gauge 366 runs about $250. A price exception may exist if the machine is virtually new with very, very, few shells run through it. A cheaper price can be a good deal, but this usually means that the machine will need work and you will need some way to evaluate the 366 on offer to decide if it's worth the effort and cost to get it back into condition. There are enough 366's around that you can wait for the right one for you to turn up. Where to try: ebay, trapshooters and gunbroker among other websites. Don't forget to look on your club's bulletin board for the possibility of a local buy. For a deeper discussion on what to look for when buying a used 366, click here.
Multi gauge or 4-gun skeet shooters Many
multi-gauge
shooters acquire a loader for each
gauge and install them in a row on their reloading bench. A
space-saving, alternative is to
set up a die head casting for each gauge. You could just change out the
die set, but
going the completely set-up die head route means that no adjustments
are required
to turn out perfect reloads immediately. Further, using this system
after a practice time or
two, it will take less than five minutes to change to the
new
gauge. Within gauge, as for example a first barrel bunker load vs. a
totally different case
and component set for a second barrel bunker (or sporting or hunting
or ?) load, it's less than a
minute. Set up/mounting Installing
the machine on
the
bench: Bench/table needs to be of really
solid 2" (50 mm) planks, especially if you choose to
resize European-designed UEE and Fiocchi steel-based hulls fired in
some
large-chambered autoloaders. 1" (2.54 cm) planks/tabletops are no
problem with all others.
1/4-20 (M6 - 1) mounting bolts will do with
large fender type washers
to spread the stress over a larger area of the base
casting. Or, perhaps a piece of 1/8" (3.5 mm) steel between the
mounting holes.
With UEE type and other hard to resize
hulls, it's probably better
to go with the 3/8" (8 mm) bolts—and large, SAE-thick fender
washers. When
deciding the
final mounting
position, make sure the operating handle in
its bottom-most position
clears the bench edge. An alternative is
to mount the machine with risers. The dimension is
about 1.61”
(41mm) from the center line
of the front mounting holes to
the bench front or 27mm 1.06” (27mm) from the
front of the base
casting. Here is a 366
mounting hole dimension sketch. Use
of a 5” (127
mm) to smaller 102 mm 4" (102 mm) PVC adapter as a
bench feed-through for shells
to drop into a under bench
box will
eliminate loaded shells skittering on the
reloading bench. I find a 30" (76 cm) bench height
comfortable to
load sitting,
with a 4' (1.2 m) width
adequate for a single machine, adjustment tools, hulls, wads and
electronic scale.
You may
comfortably sit or
stand when
reloading
with the 366. Standing is better for resizing the UEE,
cheddite and
Fiocchi hulls since you can more easily
put your entire body into the resizing effort when needed—an
important
consideration
if you will load a lot of these easy to obtain hulls ejected from
autoloaders and pumps. The
ideal is to have all
the bushings that Hornady sells (Hornady
bushing chart). That
way no matter
what powder brand your
supplier has left in stock, or the storage conditions your purchase
experienced before you bought it, you have the bushing to load it.
Unfortunately,
this is an somewhat expensive
solution. The current Hornady list price is more than $5
each and there are 27
bushings suitable for 12 gauge target
loads available.
Be aware that the available number seems to be decreasing
with time. . . A
compromise is
the 405 through 498 for 12
gauge powders (probably
426 through 492 is
adequate for most bunker and ATA loads); 300 through
402 for 28 and
20, the 256 and 266 group (Ponsness-Warren offers
bushings
for Hodgdon's
Little Gun powder,
or you can go the
adapter-for-MEC bushings route) for 410
bore to cover the Hornady bushing gaps. If
you load only one
or two gauges, you would need to
just acquire just
those groups. Please note: YOU MUST HAVE AN ACCURATE SCALE WITH A CHECK-WEIGHT SET TO INSURE THAT ACCURACY TO RELOAD SAFELY. A
greater
than
600 grain scale is to be preferred as
this will allow you weigh the finished 24 gram shell. A 24 gram shell
will average around 545 grains,
depending on the powder charge, the case chosen and
the wad weight. After
finding the average weight and deviation
tolerance of your
shells, you are able to pick out the shells that
deviate significantly from that norm, as
shells with no powder or grossly wrong shot
weight. If you're concerned about the bunker tournament cartridge
control police, you can
pick out the risky heavier shells as well. The scale can be
beam balance or digital electronic. They
each have their virtues. Scale test weights are
available from the
scale manufacturers and through any good local sporting
goods
store or online. Scale test weights also allow you to confirm scale
linearity: some scales are less accurate at one end of their range. The
test weight will also allow you to learn how quickly the scale will
"settle" or arrive at the final, accurate, reading and insure that you
know how much time to allow for accurate readings. An
extra powder pan
or two is
very useful at times, as
well. To check
the powder and/or shot drop from a given bushing, just disengage the
auto-advance paul from the shell plate (if you use it), tuck it to the
side, then
gently rotate the plate back clockwise to pull out the hull that the
powder
has just dropped into (some loaders have cut away the shell plate ring
to
expedite this. Seems easier to just move the paul and rotate the shells
out? You only go through this occasionally. . .). Gently tap the powder
from the hull into the powder pan and take the measurement. It should
be noted that the first powder drop usually will be
heavy—somewhere
between 0.5 and 1.5 grains depending—the second will be
light—perhaps 0.3 grains—and subsequent drops will
be pretty much
normal.
This means that on start-up you need to check the first 4 or more drops
to learn what the bushing will drop. The shot drop behaves about the
same way—important to be aware of
if you're worrying about the cartridge
control police at a bunker match.
Be
certain that you are bottoming the
handle consistently to insure a proper drop. Shot bushings: Hornady
offers two 7/8
ounce bushings (and no specific 24 gram bushing). The #9 shot (American
20 ga. skeet #9) bushing seems like the best bet for a single,
no-fuss bushing purchase: with premium high antimony West Coast
shot, carefully
micrometer-screened for average true 7
1/2 size and found to be particularly well-graded, this
bushing drops an average of 361
grains (actually about 23.5 grams). Interestingly, this is about the
average shot
weight of the Winchester AA factory 24 gram
factory load. Poorer quality shot is unlikely to get you into trouble
with the
cartridge control police with this bushing. (From my notes:
West Coast 7 1/2 =
361 grains, Remington
8's = 362 grains, West Coast 9's = 365 grains and
soft, junky reclaimed shot =
368 grains. All
well
under the maximum ISSF 24.5 gram/378.092 grain
loading tolerance.).
The Hornady
7/8 ounce
"field" bushing will
drop
around 379 grains with the same selected West Coast 7 1/2's.
This allows easy drop size
reduction with electrical tape to the exact 24 gram/370 grain weight,
if desired. Good 366 habits to have from the start: Start
of session: look
carefully to confirm the powder and shot slides are set to
the shut
off positions before beginning. (It's best to carefully empty
the powder
and shot tubes and store the stuff safely at the
end of
each loading session.) If you're loading 410 or 28's confirm the shot
drop tube is very free in the die head casting. If it binds, it will
crush the top of the case and when the operating handle is returned to
start position, you'll find BB's everywhere.
An
example
of not realizing that maybe something isn't quite right with
the feel of the operating handle until too
late. Inspection showed
the case mouth (left) as shown. This always
means the wad caught on the case mouth, usually because the case was
cocked going into the wad guide (not paying attention!). Pulling the
wad
out with needle-nosed pliers showed OP lip was torn (right). If I
hadn't stopped and checked, this
was a guaranteed
blooper/pookie load—good for kidding by
fellow
shooters; maybe also a missed target. See additional notes in Part II. Recommended tools for the 366: Minimum and Essential 366 tool list. Primer feed stop unit, wad guides, primer tube filler spring and C-washer for swing out wad guide. Once in a while, you'll want to change the spring in the primer seating station and the 1/4-20 x 1” hard steel bolt at the top of the primer knockout linkage. Having a spare primer depriming rod is useful. On rare occasions they can get bent and it's certainly quicker to put in a good one than stop everything and go through the straightening process. Sometimes you'll find the rubber washers in the measure casting have gotten pretty chewed up. If you load a lot of steel-base hulls, you may want to have a spare clevis link and resizing ring as well. And if you use the auto-indexing feature, the spring occasionally breaks along with the pawl becoming worn. Note that the 410 uses a different pawl. There is an old spare parts rule that still seems to apply: if you have two spares for a given part, you'll never need the second one. I don't think that works for wad guide fingers though! If you have the spring-loaded primer seater and/or new model Taper-Loc and pre-fold dies, then you may want spares of the press-on nuts. They don't seem easy to come by locally. To make it easy when you talk to the nice ladies at Hornady (800.338.3220), here is the "Official" (:–)) shootingbunker.com recommended spare parts list: (The entire 366 parts list is here: Hornady 366 manual. The list works back from page 23. Suggest keeping the/an old manual handy as it can be clarifingly useful for cross-reference.)
*Minimum
spare parts recommended. Some
of the
common parts are easily obtainable in local hardware
stores, although I never could find press-on nuts of the proper type
in Home Depot or Lowes. Ace hardware did have them. Note that
Hornady
supplies the clevis and cam bolt in a hardened steel for
greater
longevity. Chart updated to reflect the latest data in the new Hornady
366 manual.
Suggest keeping the/an old manual handy as it can be clarifingly useful
for cross-reference especially if you have an older model. After market items: Larger shot and
powder tubes (these will help the housekeeping
issues with
ball powder as well): www.basicdesignmachine.com.
These are quite large, static coated and the design eliminates the
infamous ball powder leakage mess—at least from the tubes.
A second source is Jim
Skeel:
**xskeeljc@verizon.net**x. He is a
new, recent supplier and
his
product looks very nice. (Remove the **x for his email address.) End part I, 40 years with the Hornady 366. Link to Part I: Introduction Link
to Part II: General problem solutions Link
to Part III: On poor crimps, 410 reloading Link to Part IV: Changing gauges Link to Part V: Annual maintenance Link to Part VI: On buying a used 366 Thanx
to
Chuck
Dietl
for reviewing
and sharing his comments to make this
article better. A final note of appreciation and a big thanks to Hornady for keeping this press in production and parts easily available! Rev. 2.7 |